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  1. #41
    Senior Member Adam's Avatar
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    Default Re: iq park

    Quote Originally Posted by Sweat
    They just pulled Otter Creek Park because they said they cannot afford to keep it running and I don't think that a new course is on there mind. I'm never negative but I do know our parks dept because I have dealt with them for years and they are not disc golf friendly. They told us they don't even want us to place portable baskets out at Tom Sawyer Park. The problem isn't the LDGC, it's the parks dept!
    I've heard many many stories about how difficult the parks department is to deal with and I don't doubt that, but government usually is. But something doesn't add up. Why are they hard for us to work with but appear to be easy for the Allstars to work with?

    How is it the Allstars were able to do all the cleanup work they did, pull baskets out of the ground making them extremely easy to steal, and completely redesign the course for their tournament? I've heard many people say they got permission to do what they did. If that's true, we obviously have something to learn from them.
    Where we have strong emotions, we're liable to fool ourselves. – Carl Sagan

  2. #42
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    Default Re: iq park

    Quote Originally Posted by Sweat
    They told us they don't even want us to place portable baskets out at Tom Sawyer Park.
    That is a state park. Different government. Metro parks doesn't have the authority to say yes or no to that. You would have to contact Chris Head at:

    E. P. "Tom" Sawyer State Park
    3000 Freys Hill Road
    Louisville, KY 40241-2132
    Business Office: 502-429-3280
    Recreation: 502-429-7270
    Park Manager: Chris Head


    Oh, by the way, I just sent him an email to ask if anyone has ever presented an idea of having disc golf there.
    Jason Van Over

  3. #43
    Senior Member Adam's Avatar
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    Default Re: iq park

    Sweet, let us know what you find out. There's tons of land out there that could be used for a course, after all it is a 369 acre park
    Where we have strong emotions, we're liable to fool ourselves. – Carl Sagan

  4. #44
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    Default Re: iq park

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam
    Sweet, let us know what you find out. There's tons of land out there that could be used for a course, after all it is a 369 acre park
    And I just sent an email to Councilman Heiner. He is responsible for William F. Miles park on Shelbyville road which is a 123 acre park with 6 fishing ponds and a canoe ramp and nothing else. I thought that park was a state park but it is a Metro park. http://http://www.louisvilleky.gov/M...s/parks/miles/

    I'm not holding my breath but let's see.
    Jason Van Over

  5. #45
    Senior Member Sweat's Avatar
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    Default Re: iq park

    David Greenwell approached the parks about Tom Sawyer! I hope you can do something about it, but I just know what Dave was told.

  6. #46
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    Default Re: iq park

    Here's a link from PDGA that talks about installing a course and the benefits from it. If anybody could forward this link to someone to the parks department that would be good. Either that, or I'll email it myself. All I need is an email address.

    http://www.pdga.com/course-development

    Here's a story about how adding a disc golf course has help add a 300% increase to the people coming to the park

    http://www.dailypress.com/news/dp-local ... 6553.story



    I hope Louisville gets new people that are going to be on board for the future of DG.

  7. #47
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    Default Re: iq park

    Here's the sample course proposal from the PDGA's website

    Sample Course Proposal (updated version of the successful San Francisco proposal)

    The San Francisco Disc Golf Club submitted the following proposal for a disc golf course in McLaren Park to the City of San Francisco Department of Parks and Recreation. Reproduction of this document in whole, or in part, for the purpose of proposing the installation of a course or educating community members is not only condoned, but encouraged. We believe that by leveraging our communal knowledge, and by not re-inventing the wheel every time we set out to accomplish a task, we can help disc golf to grow at a greater, and more intelligently executed rate.

    1. DESCRIBE YOUR PROJECT: (Attach sketches, plans, photos as needed)

    The San Francisco Disc Golf Club is proposing the installation of a 27-hole disc golf course in John McLaren Park. Total cost of the project is estimated at $XX,XXX.

    Rationale:
    There are now more than 2000 Disc Golf courses in the United States and Canada, nearly all installed by city and county parks departments (see Annex II for testimonials by parks and recreation staff and a list of major U.S. cities with disc golf courses). They have found that there are few recreational activities that offer the high benefit-to-cost ratio of disc golf. Disc golf has relatively low capital and maintenance costs compared with other recreational installations, is environmentally sound, is played year-round in all climates and is enjoyed immediately even by beginners of all ages.

    The installation of a disc golf course would be consistent with the stated goals of the recently revised master plan for McLaren Park, one of which is to "add major attractions to increase park use." Disc golf is also in perfect keeping with the plan's call for the development and improvement of recreational facilities that "emphasize the natural attributes and sweeping views of the City" and that "meet diversified recreational needs and offer opportunities not available elsewhere in the City."

    What Is Disc Golf?
    Disc Golf is played much like traditional golf. Instead of hitting a ball into a hole, you throw a more streamlined looking Frisbee® disc into a supported metal basket. The goal is the same: to complete the course in the fewest number of shots. A golf disc is thrown from a tee area to each basket, which is the "hole." As players progress down the fairway, they must make each consecutive shot from the spot where the previous throw has landed. The trees, shrubs and terrain changes in and around the fairways provide challenging obstacles for the golfer. Finally, the "putt" lands in the basket and the hole is completed.

    Who Can Play?
    The simple answer is that everyone can. In studies measuring participation in recreational activities, "throwing a Frisbee" has consistently been a top-ten activity. A disc golf course serves a broader portion of the community than many narrower interest activities with higher cost, skill or fitness levels required to even begin to play. Men and women, young and old, families with small children -- all can play disc golf. Because disc golf is so easy to understand and enjoy, no one is excluded. Players merely match their pace to their capabilities and proceed from there.

    How Much Does It Cost To Play?
    Many courses are located in city or regional parks where citizens play free. Most private and several public facilities will charge up to $5 per day to play, or earn passive income from annual passes and/or fees to enter the park. The equipment itself is quite inexpensive – discs designed for golf sell for $8-$15 each and only one is needed to get started.

    What Kind of Construction Would Be Planned for McLaren?
    The installation of a 27-hole disc golf course at McLaren would include the construction of tees and the installation of signs and baskets. No foliage would need to be planted or removed. A few branches usually need to be trimmed or removed near a few tees and baskets, especially near eye level range.

    Tees: Each hole would have two tees, a short one for novice players and a longer one for advanced players. The novice tees would be made of concrete, the advanced tees would either be grass or gravel. On a few of the proposed holes, existing asphalt pathways could be marked with paint and used for tees. On the rest, concrete tees 4" thick measuring approximately 5' x12' would be built flush with the ground. We estimate that a maximum of 27 tees of this size would be required.

    Baskets: Each playable hole would have a basket mounted on a pipe that slides inside an anchor pipe that gets cemented into a hole measuring approximately 8" in diameter and 18-24" deep (technical specifications for the installation of tees and baskets can be found in Annex IV). The basket pipe and anchor pipe each have collar tabs that line up and are securely locked with a padlock. Each hole would have 1-2 additional anchors installed so that the basket could be moved to different anchor locations periodically to reduce soil compacting and erosion, plus add some variety for players similar to moving holes around on a golf green. We estimate that approximately 80 anchors holes would be installed.

    Signs: Tee signs are very important to help first time users find their way through the course. Each hole would have a sign indicating the number, length, recommended flight path and par. In addition, a rules sign and information board should be installed before the first hole. The signs can be constructed with a variety of materials although we believe it would be preferable to construct signs with a natural appearance to fit in with the surrounding area. Commercial signs designed for disc golf are also available from several sources.

    What Maintenance Is Required For a Disc Golf Course at McLaren?
    After installation, the maintenance needs for a disc golf course are primarily grass mowing. Unlike weekly mowing usually required for ballfields, mowing for disc golf can be stretched to every three weeks (depending on rainfall). And even then, only the fairways need attention. The targets are made of welded steel anchored in concrete and need no regular maintenance. In the unlikely event that one of the targets is damaged beyond repair or stolen, they can be replaced for around $350. Much of the area of the proposed course is underutilized and not highly maintained. Under the proper supervision of the McLaren Park staff, SF Disc Golf Club volunteers would be eager to undertake an initial clean up of these areas and then maintain them as trash-free zones. With 2-3 anchor placements per hole, wear and tear on any one area is reduced. Walking pathways used by players may need occasional maintenance to prevent erosion and soil compacting. Club volunteers would also be willing to help under proper supervision.

    How Much Land Is Needed?
    A 27-hole course would cover approximately 27-35 acres, depending on design. The rough rule of thumb for total space needed is about one acre per hole. A significant advantage of disc golf is its ability to utilize areas that are not very desirable or usable for other activities such as woods choked with non-native foliage like buckthorn, rocky areas and slopes. In addition, a disc golf course need not be an exclusive use area -- it can co-exist amicably with other active and passive recreation uses such as hiking, dog-walking, etc. Finally, the relative portability of baskets and signs allows the park department to inexpensively relocate the course to another site as the needs of the master plan dictate.

    2. HOW DOES THE PROJECT BENEFIT THE COMMUNITY: (Discuss demographics, safety, conservation, economics, etc.)

    The installation of a disc golf course in McLaren Park would benefit the surrounding community by increasing and enhancing recreational opportunities, park safety and conservation goals.

    Recreational Needs: A disc golf course would provide an inexpensive form of recreation for people of all age and skill levels and be a much needed addition to the recreational facilities at McLaren Park. Disc skills, and in particular disc golf, have been incorporated into the San Francisco Unified School District's athletic curriculum for more than 10 years. Unfortunately, there is currently no disc golf course in San Francisco at which physical education staff can teach basic disc golf skills. Given the high density of middle and high schools in the immediate vicinity of the park, the installation of a disc golf course would provide an important recreational resource for the schools surrounding the park, as well as for the wider community. A disc golf course would give youth in the neighborhood a healthy and challenging outlet for their energies and would allow members of the San Francisco Disc Golf Club to organize clinics and youth leagues on their behalf. For the growing number of disc golfers in San Francisco, the presence of a disc golf course in the city limits would obviate the need to travel to play and would give them a base from which to further promote the sport.

    The San Francisco Disc Golf Club, in response to a request by the San Francisco Unified School District's Athletic Curriculum Department, conducted a very successful city-wide training for PE instructors at McLaren. It will also be holding clinics in the local schools over the course of the next year (clinics at Visitacion Valley and Luther Burbank middle schools and Burton and Bridgemont high schools are being arranged). Support from the schools surrounding the park is strong, as the letters in Annex I attest. In addition, the new Recreation Director at McLaren has expressed his strong support for the course and offered to work with club members to design and implement programs for neighborhood youth including leagues and clinics.

    Ross Hammond of the San Francisco Disc Golf Club (SFDGC) has offered to be the volunteer "course pro" for the McLaren Park course. In this capacity, he would work with Park staff and local players to run leagues, clinics and tournaments and secure any necessary permits for these activities. These activities would be self-funding and so would require no new park funds. However, SFDGC members would be glad to train park recreational staff and other volunteers to take over and expand programs as demand increases.

    Although San Francisco has never had a permanent disc golf course, it has played host to many important tournaments over the years and the Bay area is home to some of the country's best disc golfers.

    Safety: A disc golf course at McLaren would increase foot traffic in the Park at random times during the day and steadily during evenings and weekends. The influx of purposeful visitors would discourage the presence of individuals who are only in the park to cause mischief and perhaps engage in crime. Areas that are infrequently used and considered unsafe would be "opened-up" by the course. As many of the attached letters from different Recreations Departments show (Annex II), the installation of a disc golf course has led to significant decreases in vandalism and litter as users have a stake in keeping the course and surrounding area clean and well-kept.
    Conservation: Disc golf can be an environment-friendly sport. Unlike traditional golf, a disc golf course may not require trees to be removed, grass mowed and watered daily, plants uprooted or non-native species planted. Many courses can be designed to fit into the existing flora of the park like McLaren. The impact of a disc golf course on the surrounding area is minimal. Each hole has multiple pin placements, ensuring that no one area gets constant foot traffic (this has the added benefit of providing new challenges to players). In addition, disc golfers overall tend to take great pride in where they play, helping reduce potential litter on the course. In the long-term, a disc golf course would also help in the preservation of the park by giving young people in the neighborhood a stake in its preservation and protection.

    Economics: A deluxe 27-hole disc golf course with two sets of tees, professional signs and baskets can be purchased and installed for under $30,000, less than the cost of a single tennis or basketball court. A 27-hole course can serve more than 100 people at any time, compared with a tennis court (4 maximum) or basketball court (10 maximum). The cumulative square footage of 27 x 60 sq. ft hard surface tee pads is also less than either a basketball or tennis court.

    3. IDENTIFY COMMUNITY SUPPORT FOR PROJECT: (Evidence of additional funding, neighborhood involvement, public meetings, general consensus in the community, etc. Include a mailing list of supporters, community organizations). For proposed acquisition projects, please provide name(s) and address(es) of all affected property owners.

    Additional Funding:
    As of Month/Day/Year, Club members have managed to raise $X,XXX in pledges of cash and in-kind contributions from local players and the manufacturer of the disc golf baskets (over 100 discs have also been pledged for an opening ceremony and/or youth activities). This leaves a funding gap of $X,XXX which we hope to fill with resources from the _________________________________.

    Public Meetings and Support:
    Members of the SF Disc Golf Club met with the Friends of McLaren Park and have been invited to give a presentation at a community meeting hosted by Friends of McLaren Park, San Francisco Safe and Neighborhood Safety Partnership. They have also spoken to the following people who have pledged to support their effort to get a disc golf course installed in John McLaren Park ____________

    The San Francisco Disc Golf Club was formed to promote disc golf as an environmentally and socially beneficial sport that is challenging and rewarding for people of all ages and backgrounds and that can co-exist amicably with other recreational activities in the city's parks. It currently has over 100 members.

    Suggested Additions:
    1. Letters of Support
    2. Acquire testimonials from Parks Departments nearby and around your state
    3. Newspaper and magazine clippings. Try Google Alerts using Disc Golf as the search term.
    4. Technical Specifications for Baskets and Installation of Tees, Baskets and Signs
    5. NRPA Article: http://www.nrpa.org/content/default.asp ... entId=5214
    6. Budget - Basket manufacturer websites contain a wealth of information to help with budgeting, not
    just for baskets but for tee pads and signage. See PDGA Tech Standards area for contact info on Manufactures who provide PDGA approved equipment.

  8. #48
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    Default Re: iq park

    Response from Stephen Ott, assistant to Councilman Heiner. Hopefully another inlet for disc golf into the Metro parks system.

    Jason,

    On behalf of CM Heiner, thank you for contacting our office with your suggestion. I will forward your email to Metro Parks to solicit their input concerning your suggestion of constructing a disc golf course at Miles Park.

    In the meantime, feel to contact our office with additional questions or requests.

    H. Stephen Ott
    Legislative Assistant


    Councilman Hal Heiner
    Louisville Metro Council, District 19
    Thank you for the opportunity to serve!

    601 West Jefferson Street
    Louisville, KY 40202
    (502) 574-3464, (502) 439-1638 cell
    http://www.hotlinetohal.com
    Jason Van Over

  9. #49
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    Default Re: iq park

    Please see new thread about 21st century parks in General Info area.
    Jason Van Over

  10. #50
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    Iroquois Park . I play there everyday after work for practice and it really needs some clean up and maintenance right now. After the storms a couple of weeks ago the bridges got washed away and some are falling apart. Also there are some pretty big trees just hanging across the fairways. if there is any way i can help leave me a message.

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