PDA

View Full Version : Some rules suck



themick
06-17-2012, 10:27 PM
I was at otter creek today playing leauges @ threw on hole 9 saw it land in the basket. Thought i had a ace only to walk up there @ find out it went through the side if the basket. Witnessed by 4 people so i pull my disc out of the basket where it came to rest and put in my deuce that sucks but its the rules. They still suck though so excited to r u serious. Damn it man

Adam
06-17-2012, 10:43 PM
There used to be string or something wrapped around the basket to stop that from happening, since the baskets were designed for Whamo frisbees. I guess it disappeared while the course was gone. That really sucks man.

MarcusGresham
06-17-2012, 11:55 PM
Should've killed the witnesses. If no one saw it go through the side it's an ace.

Daniel
06-18-2012, 08:54 AM
I thought that **IF** it was witnessed going THROUGH the side of the basket (it didn't hold the disc), then it can be counted. I had this same thing happen to me at the Fall DG tourney a few years ago...

John
06-18-2012, 12:06 PM
Last year the PDGA changed the rules for entry into the basket. The rules now are that the disc must enter from above the bottom portion of the basket and below the top portion of the basket. This rule basically says that a disc cannot enter the basket through the caged off part of the bottom aka wedgie. In the same respect if this is not an entry port, it should not be allowed to be an exit port.
If the shot was witnessed as having entered the basket correctly I would say you have an ace.
The only argument is that the disc is not supported by the chains or the bottom of the basket. If there is an invisible barrier protecting entry, that same barrier should protect exit.

themick
06-18-2012, 06:57 PM
It didnt fall out it was in the basket just went in through the side

jobwilson82
06-18-2012, 07:39 PM
If it went through the side, no ace. Very nice shot though, regardless.

John
06-19-2012, 06:21 AM
If you are not allowed to enter the basket there, it only stands to reason that a disc should not be allowed to exit through those openings.

Daniel
06-19-2012, 11:15 AM
Oh, yep. No dice. Sorry--I remember someone (Kyle R?) putting a disc in the side of #12 at OCP years ago...

John
06-19-2012, 12:21 PM
Oh, yep. No dice. Sorry--I remember someone (Kyle R?) putting a disc in the side of #12 at OCP years ago...
That rule was changed in Jan 2011 that disallows "wedgies". The rule will not allow a disc to enter the basket in that manner. It (and this is not explained in the rule change) should also not allow a disc to exit in that manner. The rule effectively places an invisible barrier around the openings of the bottom portion of the basket.

Atvizory2000
06-19-2012, 08:54 PM
Sounds to me like its a basket malfunction. If your disc falls out due to a hole, broken rim, broke wires it should count as an Ace. In soccer, if there is a hole in the net and the ball scores but rolls out the back, its still a goal. Its not your fault the basket is a piece of shit.

Adam
06-19-2012, 11:05 PM
Well that's the thing, those baskets were made for Whamo frisbees which have a larger diameter than what we use today. So back then the baskets caught fine but our smaller discs of today can pass through the bottom catching part of the basket.

MarcusGresham
06-19-2012, 11:17 PM
Maybe you guys need to Saran Wrap those baskets. Maybe even get that Christo guy to wrap them in fabric. Then nothing will get in or out the wrong way.

martin
06-20-2012, 12:01 AM
Maybe otter leagues shouldn't follow every single pdga rule in the books. It's league its not a pdga sanctioned event. It's a stupid rule. It should only be in effect for baskets that have been designed in accordance with new specs. Stupid rule. Especially since its based on if it is seen to happen. If nobody had seen it enter it counts. So its stupid it can't count sometimes but count othertimes. Stupid.

captain plastic
06-20-2012, 08:37 AM
It's a little tricky to enact a rule like this. I am sure the disc was in and slipped through but
are you really sure? You could never be 100% is my point. To say a shot was in by another
player is just not the way the game should be played. This is just my opinion of course. Other
players should not be saying the disc was in or NOT in the basket. Opens up another can of worms.

Baskets should just be modified to catch properly. Especially now that the park is charging to play.

Enjoy summer!

illyB
06-20-2012, 04:02 PM
I agree with Sam on this one. Fix the baskets with string or whatever or get new ones. Pay to play, pay to maintain.

Daniel
06-21-2012, 02:04 PM
It's a little tricky to enact a rule like this. I am sure the disc was in and slipped through but
are you really sure? You could never be 100% is my point. To say a shot was in by another
player is just not the way the game should be played. This is just my opinion of course. Other
players should not be saying the disc was in or NOT in the basket. Opens up another can of worms.

Baskets should just be modified to catch properly. Especially now that the park is charging to play.

Enjoy summer!

I will say that when this very thing happened to me (in a tournament), two of the people in my group were RIGHT BY the basket and said "they saw nothing" when my putt hit chains, dropped in the basket and fell right through it. I feel they knew exactly what happened, as this was for the lead...

Justin
06-21-2012, 02:57 PM
I was at otter creek today playing leauges @ threw on hole 9 saw it land in the basket. Thought i had a ace only to walk up there @ find out it went through the side if the basket. Witnessed by 4 people so i pull my disc out of the basket where it came to rest and put in my deuce that sucks but its the rules. They still suck though so excited to r u serious. Damn it man

After reading through this multiple times, I don't think the issue he had here was that it went in the basket properly and then fell out, although this can be an issue at Otter Creek. I think the issue was that when he arrived at the basket, it was in the basket, but the way it had entered was through the actual basket part. So it appeared to him he had the ace when he was told by others that it had gone through instead of over the catching part. This can happen at any course although again it is easier at Otter Creek with the bigger spaces.

G1nked
06-21-2012, 03:11 PM
IMHO sounds like The Mick got screwed out of an ace pot. If it was an pdga sanctioned event then I can see utilizing the ruling to the fullest, ace pools intice people to come out to leagues and if you start picking and choosing certain rules and not others it will detour people from participating. If it was in question I think at least Mickey should have received a portion but really it sounds like he should have got it all

Will Burke
06-21-2012, 04:05 PM
I know at the Fall Open last year I had a drop in on hole 1 and set it in the basket and it fell straight thru. We asked Jeremy after the round and said it counted. This wasn't the first time I witnessed a disc falling through there. I guess them holes there like something bigger than my 8.5 inch disc.

LtDan914
06-21-2012, 07:21 PM
I know at the Fall Open last year I had a drop in on hole 1 and set it in the basket and it fell straight thru. We asked Jeremy after the round and said it counted. This wasn't the first time I witnessed a disc falling through there. I guess them holes there like something bigger than my 8.5 inch disc.

I remember that. Just for clarification, Jeremy made an exception to the rule and decided it should count because the baskets were designed for larger diameter discs so there are gaps in the baskets that a disc can easily fall through.

captain plastic
06-21-2012, 09:52 PM
When rule exemptions are made like this the tournament should be an
XC event.

Sounds to me like these baskets need to be fixed. One foot putts falling through
the bottom of the basket is kind of silly. I know we all putt poorly sometimes but
I make all my one footers. :)

jamesmcc
06-21-2012, 10:43 PM
Not Will!!!

LtDan914
06-21-2012, 10:48 PM
A simple solution to the problem would be adding a metal hoop around the basket near the bottom of the tray. This keeps putts from falling out and going in through the side. This would not change the catching abilities which can be a positive or negative depending on how you look at it.

jobwilson82
06-22-2012, 12:28 AM
I played two rounds there this morning and had no issues. Those baskets catch great!

martin
06-22-2012, 01:31 PM
I think the baskets catch great as well. When they were reinstalled all of the baskets looked to be in the best shape they had ever been in. Whatever was sprayed or painted on the chains seemed to catch the discs quite well.

My favorite part of the rules is players always like to pick which rules to follow and which not to. Kinda like life. Surprised nobody has asked mick if he marked his lie with a mini under the basket before dropping his disc back in the basket for the two. Unless its a pdga official event why do we let some rules slide but others not... Thankfully that's why there is a td or league director to make the call. Even the pdga rated leagues have made exceptions for some rules.

Otter is a course with outdated baskets, and shouldn't have to be tied to 100% of the current rules. Like the captain said, due to these circumstances a pdga event on this course should always be run as an X-tier. It's not the only course in the country like this. Iroquois has different baskets from one hole to the next. Buffalo has baskets like nowhere else. Tournies that use a variety of temp baskets. Not every rule needs to apply 100% of the time. My opinion.

jobwilson82
06-22-2012, 06:04 PM
When rule exemptions are made like this the tournament should be an
XC event.

Sounds to me like these baskets need to be fixed. One foot putts falling through
the bottom of the basket is kind of silly. I know we all putt poorly sometimes but
I make all my one footers. :)

If the disc falls through the basket (e.g. Will's aforementioned putt)there is no need for an exception/exemption. It's a made putt regardless.

LtDan914
06-22-2012, 06:46 PM
If the disc falls through the basket (e.g. Will's aforementioned putt)there is no need for an exception/exemption. It's a made putt regardless.

Not if you go strictly by the rule book


Disc Entrapment Devices: In order to hole out, the thrower must release the disc
and it must come to rest supported by the chains and/or the inner cylinder (bottom and
inside wall) of the tray. It may be additionally supported by the pole. A disc observed by two
or more players of the group or an official to have entered the target below the top of the
tray or above the bottom of the chain support is not holed out.

The disc has to come to rest in the basket. It also can not enter through the side but that rule does not work backwards if the disc falls through the basket.

jobwilson82
06-22-2012, 06:58 PM
Well played Dan, I concede.

MarcusGresham
06-22-2012, 08:58 PM
I was told by someone that the Otter Creek course (and those very same baskets) were put there by Steady Ed himself, and as sort of a lasting tribute that's the reason there's a strong unlikelihood that they'll be modified to accommodate modern discs.

LtDan914
06-22-2012, 09:24 PM
I was told by someone that the Otter Creek course (and those very same baskets) were put there by Steady Ed himself, and as sort of a lasting tribute that's the reason there's a strong unlikelihood that they'll be modified to accommodate modern discs.

Personally I think the baskets are part of what make OC what it is. I only made a suggestion to add a piece of metal to keep the discs from falling through. Other than that I would not want them changed one bit.

Will Burke
06-22-2012, 09:51 PM
Never concede! I don't see where it says it must be at rest, and if it did it'd be flawed. It would have to mention under what frame of reference. Also if a disc just hit the basket I'm sure some of the energy was transferred causing a vibration to the basket in which technically you disc wouldn't be at rest to the basket. Therefore if this at rest is the argument we'd be waiting a long time to hole out.