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captain plastic
03-07-2011, 12:58 PM
Hello all
I need your opinion expressed in this thread.
When the club runs random draw doubles
what format do you prefer?

1. A & B players

2. Total random draw

I myself would like to see random draw for many reasons.
Every league I have played in only has two or three true
pros. Everyone else is like myself is forced to play pro and
essentially does not stand much of a chance.

I feel like attendance would draw more people if it was
a true random draw doubles. More pros would come out
because they could be paired with a pro. More guys like
me (in the middle) would come out because we would be
treated more fair. The lower guys still have a great chance
of being paired with someone good or maybe not.

I guess it ultimately comes down to the person running the event
but I want to hear what your thoughts are.
Let's hear em'

MarcusGresham
03-07-2011, 02:34 PM
Speaking from the point of one of the "lower guys" (probably one of the lowest guys,) if we're afraid of showing up and being paired with someone on our own level while we might have to play against two guys, either of whom could beat our best combined effort by himself, I think there's a likelihood of losing a lot of the "B" players.

Daniel
03-07-2011, 03:59 PM
I'd say (as being a former pro) that the true draw would work *IF* you redraw when two top pros (such as Scott R and Dave G) got paired up. I think that's the only way to do it. I always hated seeing one or two ams being asked to "step up" and play pro. Not quite fair. That's just me.

captain plastic
03-07-2011, 04:04 PM
That would be the easiest solution. Have the two top
dogs draw first and then let everyone else draw. As long
as the two pros don't pair up it's good to go.

Justin
03-07-2011, 05:21 PM
Daniel's idea sounds good, but I also agree with Marcus as well as I am also one of the "lower guys". One of the things I enjoy about doubles leagues is being paired up with someone better than me so that I can receive more tips and instruction that helps to better my disc golf game.

Ironman
03-07-2011, 06:02 PM
From my perspective: I think both views have its pro's and con's. When I first started playing, leagues were and still are a awesome place to learn new things. I loved the fact i would get paired up with a much better player (although i may have disappointed a few with some poor performance) And I loved the support and teachings of all of them. I have learned more from playing with top players then I ever could on my own, even if they didn't directly tell me what to do I watched and learned different shots and throws. I still have a long way to go and my league days are limited due to fatherly duties.
That being said I do however support complete random draw doubles. I would like to try it even if I am paired with someone the same skill as myself or even worse, I would look at it as a challenge to try even harder. I believe it should be done, maybe in moderation, not every week not everywhere, but certainly it would be a change of pace.

weeman
03-07-2011, 07:55 PM
I like Daniel's idea to balance the playing field. My idea would be to run a sort of handicap system that is used for singles. The majority of people that come out have a good idea of what they can shoot and what their target score is so they in all likelihood have a handicap. Now if there were someway to incorporate that into the doubles format, it could be used. I know that idea doesn't get us anywhere or where its really going, it might get the ball rolling though.

Daniel
03-07-2011, 08:00 PM
No, no, no on the handicap. If it's just a tiny bit off, it really screws the top guys. Just ask the guys in Lexington. None of the top guys play because unless they shoot an 1100 rated round, they can't win.

MarcusGresham
03-07-2011, 08:15 PM
I think maybe a compromise is the answer. Alternate weeks, perhaps, with every other week or every third week being open draw.

captain plastic
03-07-2011, 08:53 PM
Good thoughts here guys. It just seems like
for the last couple of years it has been done the
same way every time. A mix up might be something
to think about. If the two top guys do get paired there
is more pressure on them to perform. More than likely
they will not and will cave to the pressure! LOL

John
03-08-2011, 07:21 AM
The ELBO leagues usually has an A/A group and a B/B group.
A good way to improve that would be to put an A/A team on the same pad/card with a B/B team.

You guys should try that. It plays good when you dont have one player that completely carries a team.

Daniel
03-08-2011, 09:40 AM
But doesn't that "force" an am to play pro if there are uneven numbers? Or do you guys play it differently?

John
03-08-2011, 10:51 AM
If there are uneven numbers we play mully man.
Players who are A level can replace 1 shot per hole and B players can replace each shot.

Daniel
03-08-2011, 12:48 PM
If there are uneven numbers we play mully man.
Players who are A level can replace 1 shot per hole and B players can replace each shot.

Ah, gotcha. That works.

jobwilson82
03-08-2011, 12:54 PM
Tommy Groves runs a handicapped singles league here in Evansville that is a lot of fun. It runs 12 weeks and it's singles. We pay weekly 45% and overall 45%. Your handicap is based on your best rounds and it changes as you increase your total rounds played.

We play for tags based on raw score, as well. Check out the format if you'd like.

http://aceeagle.bigforumpro.com/f15-ace-eagle-golf-league

jamesmcc
03-08-2011, 07:53 PM
The one thing about the A/B doubles is for the not so seasoned players, to give them a chance to learn as for having to move over to the pro side to me the only way to step up your game is to step up yourself. Playing pro is definitely a pressure scenerio those who can't handle it may never improve. The only way to find out is to step up. As for me my game didn't improve until I was forced to play the A side and when I did just like everyone else I paid my dues (lost alot) but now I'm the better for it because now I'm considered one of the top pros of this area and thats definitely because of LEAGUES.

captain plastic
03-09-2011, 11:11 AM
Good point James.

martin
03-09-2011, 11:53 AM
random draw doubles would be a great format to compliment - the pro/am doubles and singles formats that are already being planned for leagues this year - between having leagues at cv, seviren, and iq - I vote for multiple formats for sure


random draw also helps rid players of the misconceptions of who is pro and who is am - especially when its doubles and many players can make pro shots

as players step up - all it takes is playing a solid round to compete with most players on any given day

MarcN27
03-09-2011, 07:54 PM
The way I see it I like pro am. But luck of the draw is good wth me u have to get out of the am section sooner or later. It will make u step up your game or you'll loose and it will probably happen anyway but you will push yourself till u do get better

Bassmanatum
03-10-2011, 12:17 PM
I think that having a random draw pro/am works great. I am a middle player and I love the challenge of having to step up and play against the pros. I know it made me a better player and really that is the only reason I play in leagues.