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Russ
05-07-2010, 07:35 AM
First before I go any further, I am not here as an Officer, official spokesman, or voice of the AllStars disc golf club. This is just my opinion, and not that of the club or any other member. (Yes I can Be Harsh, so if you are easily offended please read a different thread)

The thread that was on the Allstars site about us helping out kinda irritates me. Here is why.....
For years now the LDGC has had every opportunity to utilize the help of the members, and officers of the Allstars disc golf club. Yet most were shunned, pushed away, taken for granted and used. Now that these people have found a place where there voice and ideas are heard the LDGC wants to cooperate. I almost find this hard to believe. What the Allstars have managed to accomplish in the past year and a half speaks volumes. There is teamwork, something that the LDGC has lacked for years. In the Allstars it is about US not ME. There is no president, vice president, secretary.....in other words no reason to give one person a title so that run wild with it and think that it is all about them and not the club as a whole. You want the Allstars too help run this tournament but you dont respect the fact that they are Non-Profit! That means 100% payouts, not 50% and we keep the rest of the money! I guess what I am getting at is the LDGC has had every conceivable opportunity throughout the years to enlist the help of the individuals that you are now asking for help. Why now? Why not 5 years ago? each and every one of you in this club know me and know that I would do anything for this sport, but not once have any of you ever approached me to TD an event for you. Yet Lexington, a city 80 miles east has asked me to TD an event. I just dont get it! Even sadder is the fact that I have been a paying member of the LDGC with the exception of one year(last year), and am again this year. Even after all the times I have been ridiculed, stepped on, had my opinions erased and deleted from the board, and I still join your club, hand you $10 a year and for what? Think about this guys.......if you ever want to repair the damage that has been done asking us to cooperate with one of YOUR tournaments is not the way to go about it!!!!!! If you really wanted to cooperate you would be helping the Allstars with the Allstars weekend that is just a few weeks away, not in September. You would be there to help pour the next 12 pads, not let all of us in the Allstars do it while you sit back and play! The Allstars exist because of years of problems, if you want to fix them join the Allstars!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Don't sit back and expect all of us to join the LDGC while very few of you are Allstars members....and we are FREE! And with that FREE MEMBERSHIP, you get a year of FREE use of the DGU website(payed for by the allstars), and discounts on discs. I know of several LDGC officers that have been asked to join the Allstars and they refuse.....this isn't cooperation!!!! Now please do not erase this! Think about this because you know I have a very valid point! I am not mad, nor do I dislike anyone of you....I just want you all to see what needs to be done if you ever want to repair the rift between all of us!!


I would, before I go Like to THANK 2 of the current LDGC members for their support. Ed and Nick Murphy!!!! They are the only 2 LDGC members that have helped with anything, thank you guys you know we love ya!

captain plastic
05-07-2010, 08:02 AM
You are reading into this too much Russ.

It's just disc golf. Let's just enjoy all the hard
work that has been put in by many(including you)
over the decades.

Russ
05-07-2010, 12:03 PM
Thats just it Sammy, I'm not reading too much into this.....you all aren't reading enough into this!
Explain to me how it is that we have heard for years that the city doesnt want a bunch of people showing up at their meetings, so you send 1 or 2 select people. Than along comes the allstars and in less than a year they have permission to redesign IQ. Thats because they went at it as a club. Power in numbers. The city doesn't want to hear that they are gonna have to pay someone $10,000 for design fees....DO IT FREE! This is why the sport suffers in our city because the LDGC has this profit mentality, just like Adam said supply and demand.....really? Has no one noticed that the country is falling apart economically because of that mentality? You would sell a crap load more if you lowered the prices. Are discs made out of Gold? Are we having a plastic shortage? Sell All you want they will make more there is no supply shortage! As a matter of fact if you keep buying them like hotcakes you will most likely create jobs. If you keep driving the prices up eventually the entire base of our sport will quit playing. We aren't Ball golf guys! People play this sport because it is cheap and affordable, not because they want to pay $1000's of dollars for equipment and pay even more a year to play. For the most part the sport is made up of Tye Dye wearing Hippies. Hippies don't like the corporate giants!!

Now about the CVO.....
Last year was an A-Tier...the Am payouts were as bad if not worse than any C-Tier I have ever seen. Why? Was it because someone from half way across the country walked away with all the money? Seriously you shouldn't have to pay a Pro to come to your tournament. If they don't want to come for whatever reason than fine. But to pay a man to show up at your tournament....wow! And than because he did the good majority of your field that was made up of AM's suffered! They had to play cram packed in while the small handful of Pro's got to play all by themselves. You shun the majority of players that keep your tournaments running! Look up the numbers! The vast majority of people playing this sport are AM's not Pro's! If the Pro's want to make money playing this sport than they had better settle for smaller payouts until we get as many people watching and playing as Ball Golf. Until than deal with it!

Now don't tell me I am reading to much into something! Look outside the box that your in for 5 minutes and I promise you that there is a whole other world out there for you to see!

Russ
05-07-2010, 12:04 PM
By the way....I do enjoy all the hard work that has been done by a select few, not many!

CHAIN BANGER
05-07-2010, 12:24 PM
I hate to say it but Russ is right. There are more AM's out there than pros. The AMs are
the life blood of our sport, without them there wouldn't be disc golf on the level that there
is in this country. More players means more coverage. More coverage means that the sport grows faster. The faster the sport grows the better it will be for the pros. People have been for years looking it this bass akwards for so long that they have just become accustom to thinking this way.

On the point of plastic and tournaments, who needs a break on plastic more? I would say the new AMs or Rec players. Keep in mind that the people that have been playing for years are going to keep playing. It is the new players, the whammo players that we need to attract, even the one disc wonders.

STRENGTH IN NUMBERS

CHAIN BANGER
05-07-2010, 12:43 PM
remember that golf was the game of the poor where pocket billiards was the game of the rich. Ball golf is the game of the rich where disc golf is the game of the people.

captain plastic
05-07-2010, 12:50 PM
I don't want to argue or prove who is right
or wrong. You certainly have points. Both of
you do.

Pros like Dave Greenwell, Dave Felberg, and Eric
Roadhouse are part of the reason there are so many
am players. For one they probably have each taught
100 people how to play or play better. Then their mad
skills keep most of us dreaming of the day we can throw
48 shots in a row with no errors.

We should not be comparing the Allstars and the LDGC.
All that was asked was if anyone would want to help.
Obviously most don't. That is fine. This tournament will
be ran the way Nate and Jeremy sees fit. If they want
a big pro purse then that is how it is.

Some towns are more am friendly. Bowling Green, Lexington, etc.

Some towns don't give a dam. Like Charlotte for instance. They
don't even offer Rec. or lower divisions at weekly leagues! You
either step up or practice more until you can compete.

Daniel
05-07-2010, 01:08 PM
I am curious as to why the Allstars got things done so quickly. Were things in the works long before, or did this effort start recently? Did the allstars pay for the concrete tees or did the city? I'd imagine the club did, but just curious.

I have to agree with Russ about being pushed out and only wanting "help" from certain people. Not everyone in the club is (or was) this way, but they were certainly present in force. I saw it first hand on several occasions.

As for Ams vs Pros--like Sam said, either step up or practice more. You get better by playing people better than you. Not by waltzing to victory after victory.

I wish there could be a unified front for DG here in Louisville. I think presenting one face (not one person) as a club to the powers-that-be would be more powerful than a fractured one that is what we have today.

Bubby Hill
05-07-2010, 01:29 PM
Russ, if joining the All-Stars and being a member of both clubs will help foster a better relationship between the two, then I'm all for it. Where do I sign and who do I pay?

G1nked
05-07-2010, 01:55 PM
I joined All-Stars just for that exact reason Bub, I harbor no ill feelings towards anyone in the sport I love.
I do wish that LDGC would offer more incentives to new members like clinics from the pros on skill shots, drives and upshots stuff like that. I only know of the discount for joining PDGA and a free drawing for a PDGA membership as initial perks for new members to get them hooked. I also agree with the All-stars free membership due to sometimes you have to give away the razor to sale blades. But this is a perspective from a total noob to the sport so I have no past history to judge anyone nor do I ever wish to judge or criticize anyone in the sport besides Nick Murphy....opps did i say that out loud.
Nick is a inspiration as is his Dad and I look forward to helping out as much as I can for the Buffalo Trace Open this year.

jeremy
05-07-2010, 01:56 PM
First off…I, Jeremy Watts, wrote the message on the Allstars board suggesting we all work together. Not the LDGC. The LDGC was not asking for the two clubs to work together, I was.

The only people that I have ever turned away from helping me are people I don’t trust. People that I know have ever stolen money or items from people, clubs, or companies are not people I’m going to trust to run events with me…ever. To the best of my knowledge there are only two people that I have ever told that I don’t want to work with them and I do not want to work with them to this day. Both of them have stolen money. Anyone else, I’ll be happy to work with.

Every tourney I run is 100%+ plus payout. Saying anything other than that is an idiotic lie.

This is the second time you’ve said that the A-tier at CV was “worse than ANY C-tier you’ve ever played”. This only further shows your ignorance. I paid out 196% to the AMs at CV last year. The AMs paid $2420 to play and they walked away with $4740 worth of prizes. An example of just how good the payouts were, first place in Advanced walked away with a practice basket, a bag, and some discs and 100% of the women were paid. You don’t know what you’re talking about…again.

I was talking progress on the Allstars board. You’re just spewing garbage. Why is it that you always go away for a few months and come back with the same load of crap you were trying to sell before? Don't answer that...I don't care.

I have no other responses for you. I just wanted to defend the items I care about the most. I don't have time or energy for this again.

G1nked
05-07-2010, 02:08 PM
Heres my two cents
I know nothing about payouts and AM VS PRO percentiles or will I act like I do.
Heres what I do know I asked to caddy the CVO during the Fun Farm round day one and the TD some dude named Jeremy whats took me up on the offer and my payout was tremendous. Not only did I get to see a top caliber world champ play that asked me to caddy for him the next day(Feldberg) due to a great reference from Scott Reif, which I respectfully declined I received a great disc golf bag at a superbly discounted price that guy also threw me some sweet plastic. To me being so new to this sport at the time, still am, this meant a ton to me and left a lasting impression on how this man wants the sport to grow. Did he have to pay me in gold no, but he did in my eyes. Have I bugged a ton of pros to play a round with me yes, and nobody has told me get lost. Will I try to get them to play a round until im blue in the face yes I need some tutorials for sure but I also understand peoples schedules and that during the season the pros are off trying to do what they do.
Do I care about all the politics and bickering? not so much I enjoy the sport to much to let bs like that take the fun away from the sport I love. There has to be a way to get past this and as adults I hope somehow for the better of the sport not the better of egos I or someone can figure it out soon. I know I am nobody in the sport and this post and a dollar will get me a McDouble at McDonalds so take it for what its worth. I just wish we could all get along but there always seems to be a challenge in obtaining this monstrous feat.

Adam
05-07-2010, 02:12 PM
I have to agree with Russ about being pushed out and only wanting "help" from certain people. Not everyone in the club is (or was) this way, but they were certainly present in force. I saw it first hand on several occasions.

I've heard a lot about this over the years and want to comment on it. I have no idea who was pushed out nor do I know who pushed them out. I have no way of knowing if these stories are true or if some bad ideas were rejected causing some people to think their help wasn't wanted. It's probably a mix of both. I can only understand people being refused if they've stolen before, but who knows. I'm sorry bad things have happened in the past but it's in the past now. What say we bury the hatchet and move on?

The club has a lot of new officers now and we want to get things moving in the right direction. But it's tough to overcome some of the sour points that have happened in the past, especially when we have limited knowledge of it because we had nothing to do with it. The point is disc golf is growing and we want to doing positive things for it.

Anyone who wants to get more involved in disc golf and help the sport grow, please let us know. There's always something people can help with. It might not be what you want to do at that moment and that's fine, but there is always something.

captain plastic
05-07-2010, 02:17 PM
In the past the $10.00 annual fee went
to host this site, pay for PDGA tournaments,
park fees and misc. items. (nuts and bolts for
bridges, parts for tee signs, basket sleeves, a
little gas for the guy that mows CV for the tournament,
marking paint, etc.)

Well since we don't have that many members most of the
items mentioned above are paid for through personal donations.

There is a treasurer report. Take a look at it. If we gave something
away with membership it would defeat the purpose of why we have
a $10 fee in the first place. WE USE THE MONEY TO GROW DISC GOLF
AND HAVE FUN PLAYING IT!!

Adam
05-07-2010, 02:20 PM
Do I care about all the politics and bickering? not so much I enjoy the sport to much to let bs like that take the fun away from the sport I love. There has to be a way to get past this and as adults I hope somehow for the better of the sport not the better of egos I or someone can figure it out soon. I know I am nobody in the sport and this post and a dollar will get me a McDouble at McDonalds so take it for what its worth. I just wish we could all get along but there always seems to be a challenge in obtaining this monstrous feat.

^^^ Couldn't agree more.

jeremy
05-07-2010, 02:34 PM
It's really not a monstrous feat though. There are VERY few people that that want to stir crap up. Saying it's monstrous is giving those people way to much credit. 95% of our disc golf community (the Allstars and the LDGC) are really great people.

lilfatguy
05-07-2010, 05:54 PM
Well if I may say this when I started playing, It was Dave Greenwell that got me hooked just watching how he did so many incredible things and I wanted to do all those things. then I saw Larry Cave bring his own lawn mower to Otter Creek park and mow the course on his own, no body paid him, no body asked him to he just did it. I learned many things from both of these people, will I ever win a world championship haha nope, but i have done my share of work on ALOT of courses and the friends i have made both playing and helping means the world to me. If you feel like you want to work on a course for which ever club hell just do it, But this feud needs to end some how PLEASEEEEE for the game and the friendships

Bubby Hill
05-07-2010, 06:54 PM
Well said Brad, I'm going to drink my first beer tonight in your honor buddy!

G1nked
05-07-2010, 11:37 PM
Thats so ironic Terry Glass and myself just mowed Buffalo Trace today, nobody asked us we just love the sport.

CHAIN BANGER
05-08-2010, 01:39 AM
Well i see where this was going and i won't fall into that trap. Boys i will tell you this much, actions speak louder than words. If everyone would try to work together then we could accomplish almost anything, but that doesn't seem to be what some people are after. It really isn't a drive measuring contest, or my daddy will beat up your daddy, kind of thing. What some people think is important is what people think about them. Myself, i
r e a l l y don't give a rip what someone thinks of me.... It takes too much energy for that. However at the end of the day it was my actions, accomplishments, good deeds that i did for the good of the sport and not looking for an attaboy that keeps me going.

If you really feel that you need to defend yourself from other peoples opinions and your self esteem has taken that big of a hit maybe you shouldn't be so much in the lime light.

Remember, what you do for the good of all, not asking for reward, will pay you back ten fold.

Russ
05-08-2010, 07:21 AM
I am curious as to why the Allstars got things done so quickly. Were things in the works long before, or did this effort start recently? Did the allstars pay for the concrete tees or did the city? I'd imagine the club did, but just curious.



Daniel, First of all they got the backing of the Olmstead Conservatory group. Than they went to the city with this plan. Instead of asking for some astronomical figure like $50,000, all they asked for was enough to cover gravel, wood, and concrete. This added up to roughly $3000 give or take. Anyways the baskets will all be bought through hole sponsorships. Those are also a part of the adopt-a-hole program, so if you buy it you own and maintain it. So to answer your questions, the city bought the materials. This has only been in the works for going on maybe 6 months, and than the 2 months or so that we have been working on it. POWER IN NUMBERS!! Thats how you get things accomplished!

Russ
05-08-2010, 07:26 AM
Russ, if joining the All-Stars and being a member of both clubs will help foster a better relationship between the two, then I'm all for it. Where do I sign and who do I pay?

Yes Bub it will because the city wants numbers! It doesnt matter to them if you pick up a disc once a year or everyday, all they see is shear numbers. It isnt about all of us tournament golfers when you look at the overall picture!

Send me your Phone #, E-mail address and PDGA # in a PM and I'll get you signed up!
Thanks Bub!!

Russ
05-08-2010, 07:28 AM
First off…I, Jeremy Watts, wrote the message on the Allstars board suggesting we all work together. Not the LDGC. The LDGC was not asking for the two clubs to work together, I was.

The only people that I have ever turned away from helping me are people I don’t trust. People that I know have ever stolen money or items from people, clubs, or companies are not people I’m going to trust to run events with me…ever. To the best of my knowledge there are only two people that I have ever told that I don’t want to work with them and I do not want to work with them to this day. Both of them have stolen money. Anyone else, I’ll be happy to work with.

Every tourney I run is 100%+ plus payout. Saying anything other than that is an idiotic lie.

This is the second time you’ve said that the A-tier at CV was “worse than ANY C-tier you’ve ever played”. This only further shows your ignorance. I paid out 196% to the AMs at CV last year. The AMs paid $2420 to play and they walked away with $4740 worth of prizes. An example of just how good the payouts were, first place in Advanced walked away with a practice basket, a bag, and some discs and 100% of the women were paid. You don’t know what you’re talking about…again.

I was talking progress on the Allstars board. You’re just spewing garbage. Why is it that you always go away for a few months and come back with the same load of crap you were trying to sell before? Don't answer that...I don't care.

I have no other responses for you. I just wanted to defend the items I care about the most. I don't have time or energy for this again.


Jeremy, this is the nicest way I can put this.....
Go jump off a bridge!!!! Your the one spewing crap!!!!

Russ
05-08-2010, 07:36 AM
And for anyone who doesn't know me well.....I get along just fine with 98% of the people out there playing disc golf. There is just a few people that don't know how to take me. I am very opinionated and will tell you exactly what I think....I don't sugar coat anything! If you pay close attention the people who don't like me always try to prove me wrong. What they don't know(which they will now) is that while they are all hot and bothered, I sit hear on the other end and laugh! I will always be a thorn in those peoples side.....hahahahaha

GO PLAY DISC GOLF EVERYONE, AND SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL CLUBS!!!!!

MarcN27
05-08-2010, 08:32 AM
well imma throw my 2 cents out there i have been playn pretty heavy for about a year now with a couple of buddies we have been playn every weekend sense late last summer and we have all fell in love with the game but i have learned from past experence you always get better when you play with better people who knows y it just happens but there have only been a very small amount of people to even say hi hows it goin or what ever you know a hey care if i play a round with ya or whetever those being bpait, russ, martin, jvanover, two old guys whos names i dont remember and dave greenwell it just seems like the disc golf community in louisville is lacking somthing its being friendly if your a local pro or whatever and you have the the skill and talent to help better other players use it to the benefit of the sport and the community as a whole theres my 2 cents thanks for reading

Adam
05-08-2010, 12:05 PM
Jeremy, this is the nicest way I can put this.....
Go jump off a bridge!!!! Your the one spewing crap!!!!

Yeah, screw Jeremy! He's one of the hardest working, nicest, honest individuals I know that's done more for the sport than just about anyone else around here in the last 5 or so years. Lets rip on him some more and maybe he'll quit running so many of the tournaments we play in.

Oh wait...:shock:

Why is it everyone wants to get along but you Russ? And everything was great on the message board until you appeared... again... spewing the normal filth we've all come to love you for. Do you think anyone actually listens to you anyway? Maybe new people who don't know you yet.

So how about you start getting along or get off the board?

Russ
05-09-2010, 07:26 AM
How about once again this just goes to prove that your opinion is accepted by the LDGC until it is something they do not agree with! At that point you have people like that honest Hard working Jeremy Watts who come on the board and call you names, say your spewing crap again...Really! How about growing up and allowing a discussion to take place! This is a Discussion Board, am I correct? How about everyone else that has responded, did so in a nice manner...Except for that honest hard working Jeremy Watts and You Mr. Higdon! You had better stop with the attacks because every time you do so the disc golf community at large hears just how hateful you really are! Remember you are both out of towners! I actually live and play here every single day!

I am a member of the LDGC and of the ALLSTARS....when I have an Opinion no matter what it may be the ALLSTARS listen! When I have an Opinion and I bring it in front of the LDGC, I am publicly bashed!!! I hope you know that you are slowly cutting your own throats with this behavior! This is why there are 2 clubs!!!!!! Have a nice day!

Russ
05-09-2010, 07:27 AM
and you do this to a paying member of your club!!!!!!

By the way I did post some false information and I am sorry for doing so.....

When I said your payouts were crap....so you did payout 196%
Heres the way I should have worded it.....

When doing payouts Jeremy and the LDGC charge you $16- 20 for each disc
The AllStars charge you $10 - 12 for each disc

Thus making the ALLSTARS payouts much, much fatter than yours!
My mistake I apologize!!!

Russ
05-09-2010, 07:38 AM
Yeah, screw Jeremy! He's one of the hardest working, nicest, honest individuals I know that's done more for the sport than just about anyone else around here in the last 5 or so years. Lets rip on him some more and maybe he'll quit running so many of the tournaments we play in.

Oh wait...:shock:

Why is it everyone wants to get along but you Russ? And everything was great on the message board until you appeared... again... spewing the normal filth we've all come to love you for. Do you think anyone actually listens to you anyway? Maybe new people who don't know you yet.

So how about you start getting along or get off the board?


By the way.....No where in my post did I say SCREW Jeremy....Re read it!!!

and the only reason he has done what he has for the sport around here is because A) no one else will step up and B) when they do it has to be one persons way not that of the majority! and C) he had Daves backing while Dave was the state Coordinator.
I heard about the first year that Lyle McCoon was going to run the Lexington Open and Dave would not allow him to do so by himself. He put Jeremy in as a Co- TD. Really, Lyle McCoon wasn't capable of running the tournament alone? That man sis more for this sport around here than anyone!!!!
You Can't hide the truth forever!

jeremy
05-09-2010, 08:04 AM
I give out discs at the minimum MSRP allowed by Innova. If someones giving them away for a cheaper price than that I wouldn't announce that because Innova will stop selling them discs. That's breaking the rules that Innova set. They have a minimum price they want you to sell their discs at.

The PDGA, not Dave or me, demanded that an experienced TD help Lyle run the Lexington Open. He was very new at the time and the PDGA wasn't confident that he could do it. Dave talked the PDGA into allowing the Lexington Open to happen that year. I wish I didn't have to help that year. I would have much rather played.

When I read (and re-read for clarity) your comments they look like attacks. They look as if they are attacking my character (since your talking about events I ran). That infuriates me. I'm not the type of person to stand idle and let people make false claims about me. If your goal is NOT to stir the pot or irritate, simply rephrase the way you "ask your questions".

Russ
05-09-2010, 08:36 AM
Im sorry but I disagree about the Innova dictating what you sell discs for! MSRP means Manufactures Suggested Retail Price....note Suggested. They can not dictate to you what you sell discs for once you have purchased them. And if they quit selling to you because you are selling them too cheaply than look at what they are losing out on...trust me they would never do that!

Now as far as what I say, you should know by now from years of dealing with me, that is just how I sound when I type. I am not going to change or learn a new way because you take everything said to heart....learn to deal with me! Im not going anywhere! If you let everything I say get you all peeved than I will forever be a thorn in your side.

Airborne
05-09-2010, 12:33 PM
Daniel, just to let you know the real truth. Both clubs were contracted by the Parks Dept about the MSD project, that we have known was coming for years, was going to happen. We had a meeting with both clubs present, I was there, and the project was explained to us and how they wanted to make sure the course was incorporated onto the plan. The agreement was already made that our club would adopt CV and the Allstars would adopt IQ. Not to take away anything from the efforts of the Allstars, but we went thru a period with Bridget Sullivan in charge of the Parks and she hated Disc Golf. Things started to change when we got new leadership in the Parks Dept. Any progress that has been made is because of the efforts of those in the past who have kept up the pressure to make things happen. Those include Mike Myer, Bink, DLG etc. John Allgier and I have mantained a good friendship and will in the future. If anybody wants to know the facts about anything that has occured in the past, ask someone who has been at the meetings and know what actually happened. As Jeremy said before, we welcome help from anybody. We still have a problem with those who have attempted to steal from the DG players and will brag about it.

Daniel
05-09-2010, 06:49 PM
...I wouldn't announce that because Innova will stop selling them discs. That's breaking the rules that Innova set. They have a minimum price they want you to sell their discs at....

This is true, as I've seen it myself play out with a few people in the KY area.

Daniel
05-09-2010, 06:53 PM
Daniel, just to let you know the real truth. Both clubs were contracted by the Parks Dept about the MSD project, that we have know was coming for years, was going to happen. We had a meeting with both clubs present, I was there, and the project was explained to us and how they wanted to make sure the course was incorperated onto the plan. The agreement was already made that our club would adopt CV and the Allstars would adopt IQ. Not to take away anything from the efforts of the Allstars, but we went thru a period with Bridget Sullivan in charge of the Parks and she hated Disc Golf. Things started to change when we got new leadership in the Parks Dept. Any progress that has been made in because of the efforts of those in the past who have kept up the pressure to make things happen. Those include Mike Myer, Bink, DLG etc. John Allgier and I have mantained a good friendship and will in the future. If anybody wants to know the facts about anything that has occured in the past, ask someone who has been at the meetings and know what actually happened. As Jeremy said before, we welcome help from anybody. We still have a problem with those who have attempted to steal from the DG players and will brag about it.

Thanks, Steve. I know the situation around Bridget and all that went on (or at least what I heard about from you and others) when things were trying to get done. Since I had been absent from the sport and hadn't heard the scuttlebut about either club, I wasn't sure what exactly had transpired. Just wanted a clarification, because on the surface, it looked like the AS had done a lot in a short amount of time.

scottyb
05-09-2010, 07:49 PM
Jeremy, this is the nicest way I can put this.....
Go jump off a bridge!!!! Your the one spewing crap!!!!

:Ahhhh:

Russ, seriously, I didn't want to get involved here but don't say stuff like that man. I know you and Jeremy Watts about the same, you both give for the sport. Let's all get along, run some great tournaments, have a good time, and play some disc golf. Because honestly, everyone on here needs to know that life is too short to bicker. Love your family, disc golf related or not and have some FUN!

Let er fly the next time on the course because hopefully all of this drama goes with it.

I love the Louisville crowd, LDGC or All Stars, you're ALL just the Louisville Crew to me.

~scottyb

illyB
05-09-2010, 08:36 PM
:Ahhhh:

Russ, seriously, I didn't want to get involved here but don't say stuff like that man. I know you and Jeremy Watts about the same, you both give for the sport. Let's all get along, run some great tournaments, have a good time, and play some disc golf. Because honestly, everyone on here needs to know that life is too short to bicker. Love your family, disc golf related or not and have some FUN!

Let er fly the next time on the course because hopefully all of this drama goes with it.

I love the Louisville crowd, LDGC or All Stars, you're ALL just the Louisville Crew to me.

~scottyb

Amen brother!

Adam
05-09-2010, 08:37 PM
:Ahhhh:

Russ, seriously, I didn't want to get involved here but don't say stuff like that man. I know you and Jeremy Watts about the same, you both give for the sport. Let's all get along, run some great tournaments, have a good time, and play some disc golf. Because honestly, everyone on here needs to know that life is too short to bicker. Love your family, disc golf related or not and have some FUN!

Let er fly the next time on the course because hopefully all of this drama goes with it.

I love the Louisville crowd, LDGC or All Stars, you're ALL just the Louisville Crew to me.

~scottyb

I couldn't agree more Scotty!

festis
05-09-2010, 10:22 PM
I think there has been enogh said between all four of them. Come on guys it's in more than just this forum. And all four of you have been put little character attacks in your post. if there is a discussion to be had then have the discussion. There is no need for some of things you all have written to be in your post. They are not constructive to the sport. Remember there are three sides to every story. Yours, mine, and the truth. As far as disc sales go, a company does have the right to dictate their minimum pricing for a retailer. However, it is a fine line between the company policy being upheld and complaints from other retailers. If it proved that a complaint from another retailer is what led to the product being pulled, that is illegal. It is usually hard to prove that conspiracy though. That being said, preference is given to a retailer that carries a full line of the companies products and then negotiations can begin. Just thought I'd lay that topic to rest. Maybe we should all stick you four in a room together for an hour chained to chairs. Lord knows alot of us tried to get you guys to get along. God grant us the serenity to accept the things we cannot change.

SDodson
05-09-2010, 10:59 PM
Unfortunately it will never stop.. People hold their grudges too tight and cant let the past be the past.. some people thrive for their drama so its a constant battle

G1nked
05-10-2010, 12:44 AM
“When you hold resentment toward another, you are bound to that person or condition by an emotional link that is stronger than steel. Forgiveness is the only way to dissolve that link and get free.”

The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong.”

We all have someone or something to forgive . . . and when we learn how, we become free to increase success in every area of our life.

Russ
05-10-2010, 07:32 AM
To anyone who has read this thus far. I am sorry that it got as far as it did. However everytime I post anything Jeremy watts attacks it! Than all of his followers come after me just the same. I was trying to make a point that things need to change and Im labeled the bad guy yet again! It gets old to say the least! And than the president of this club comes on here and makes it sound like he just handed the park over to the Allstars......seriously Steve? How can anyone ever cooperate with this kind of mentality? Thanks Big Brother for the awesome course!

O' well I know where I fit in...I know where I am excepted....I know who won't wrongly accuse me of things and I know who my friends are!!
"LET THE REVOLUTION BEGIN"
GO ALLSTARS DISC GOLF CLUB!!!!!!

GetEmWet
05-10-2010, 08:22 AM
My heart has never been so glad
And yet it has never been so sad
It's tearing me in two directions
Can't decide whether to give or withold affection
'Cause I know his heart was never mine
But I want to ignore & pretend it's fine
Even though he wants to be with the other
I can't help but yearn to stay his lover
Part of me hates him for causing such strife
The other part would kill to be his wife
I've never been this confused before
Can't stand him but never wanted him more
The pain that he brings I wouldn't miss
But I think I would die without his kiss

:whistle::whistle::whistle::whistle:

jeremy
05-10-2010, 08:26 AM
:rolleyes:

lilfatguy
05-10-2010, 08:49 AM
My heart has never been so glad
And yet it has never been so sad
It's tearing me in two directions
Can't decide whether to give or withold affection
'Cause I know his heart was never mine
But I want to ignore & pretend it's fine
Even though he wants to be with the other
I can't help but yearn to stay his lover
Part of me hates him for causing such strife
The other part would kill to be his wife
I've never been this confused before
Can't stand him but never wanted him more
The pain that he brings I wouldn't miss
But I think I would die without his kiss

:whistle::whistle::whistle::whistle:
WOW didn't know this was a Loves Spat my bad

jeremy
05-10-2010, 09:18 AM
About selling Innova discs:



Stated simply, our policy is that we will sell our products to retail accounts only if they meet the following standards:

· Sell only to consumers (end-users - no wholesale sales), unless the account is otherwise pre-approved in writing as a resale distributor by Innova.

· Do not advertise or sell our products at prices lower than the prices set forth in Innova’s schedule of suggested minimum retail prices (which we can change from time to time). This includes offering items for sale in online auctions with a starting price below the prices set forth in the Innova schedule of suggested minimum retail prices. This would also include offering packages of discs that have an aggregate retail price below our minimum retail sales prices.

· Do not sell or market our products in a way that detracts from our premium brand image.

· Do not engage in any illegal or improper selling practices, including loss leaders, bait and switch, or negative selling practices.

Daniel
05-10-2010, 09:36 AM
...But I think I would die without his kiss
Ewwww. Get a room! :wink:

jondaniels
05-10-2010, 11:08 AM
This is my opinion about this whole post. I have known several of you guys for about a year now. I know that this has progressed over several years of bickering. However, looking from the outside in, this is exactly what keeps things from getting better. I like most everyone that plays this sport, and I come to these events because most of the people that play this game are really nice people. I talk to a lot of people on the phone regularly. Johnny A calls me all the time to talk to me about upcoming events and leagues. He called me the other day to see if I was going to participate in leagues that day. I talk to Martin and Nate sometimes as well. They are both awesome guys who care about the sport, and our community. But more than any of these guys I talk to Russ. Although I don’t always agree with what he has to say, I understand that he is out spoken and sometimes seems to be rather rude, but he is entitled to his opinion. More times than not I don’t think that his intention is to be evil, but is trying to bring good in his own way. We have to look past the past to make a better future! If this continues there won’t ever be any common good between the clubs. There is just too much bad blood between them, which makes it extremely hard to be a part of either. No matter what we are the Louisville golfers, and need to be united for the sport. I know that I am no one, but what I do know is that there are several larger and better events that could take place if the club heads would cooperate with one another. So any way lets change the thinking of the clubs! How about we look at it from this perspective. There are two clubs in Louisville, and everyone has an opinion good or bad. I think that we should make a counsel made up of both clubs combined to make decisions that would benefit Louisville Golf. We could have a monthly or bi-monthly meeting to discuss the scheduling for events, and then we could have a meeting of the club officials to present the outcome. This would keep either club from being stepped on by the other, and can make both clubs stronger. Let it be known that all people are welcome to participate in making decisions to make things better. If you don’t like what others have to say, then just post I don’t agree and be done with it. All of the post should be for the better of the clubs not to cause more problems. IF YOU DONT LIKE SOMEONE YOU DONT HAVE TO POST FOR THE WHOLE WORLD TO SEE IT. I think that it is wonderful that the LDGC and the Allstars are trying to work together. I spoke to Johnny A, and James M about maybe hosting a tournament held by both clubs, we could call it the Louisville Social. They both told me that it has been discussed before, but yet there isn’t any progress. I know that both of these guys are good people, and wouldn’t 86 the idea. I know the Allstars are willing to help with this event because I am a part of their club as well. This post that reaches four pages long should have never happened, and we all see where it got us (nowhere). So how is this going to make anything thing better? As a new guy coming into the sport it makes it very hard to take sides when there are great people on each of them. I am a member of both clubs, and will help as much as I can. Please let me know what I can do to make things better!

CHAIN BANGER
05-10-2010, 12:17 PM
Nay on the council

why not open public meeting

jondaniels
05-10-2010, 12:40 PM
Representing both clubs in one format is the best way to gain results. My opinion

CHAIN BANGER
05-10-2010, 12:45 PM
Pick a day and make it public

themick
05-12-2010, 08:58 PM
just to end the confusion. allstars disc golf club is covering the extra $4 to $6 per disc that innova reccomends u sell them for. were not making money it all go into the tourney and all funds we raise go to cover these type of things. i dont think anyone is going to stop a group of people simply and truley trying to better a sport not by making money, but by putting even more out of our pockets into the sport to make everyone have a better experince. so the disc arent being sold cheaper part of it is being donated by some genouras disc golfers to help out other golfers, thats it. so jsut everyone go help out another golfer stop gripping so much. if u get mad go work on a course do something productive. stop using these boards to bitch. do more bitch less. we are just trying to grow a sport we love. so pick up a stick, piece of garbage, get involved .

Adam
05-13-2010, 09:39 AM
My concern is if some CFR discs are sold for $12 and some are sold at $16, the cost Innova requires, then one group is under cutting another. And that's why Innova set a minimum MSRP, so disc sales are not monopolized.

I hope this is a non-issue and all CFR discs are being sold for a minimum of $16. I'm not trying to gripe, I'm just asking questions so everyone's fund raising is productive.

captain plastic
05-13-2010, 09:43 AM
CFR disc should be at least $20.00

Just my opinion but I want to play in
tournaments that are properly funded.

martin
05-13-2010, 10:05 AM
the allstars - are selling them for $20 - from what i was told

they have a sponsor backing there sales -

the discs are being sold to allstars members for $12 - while they have a sponsor covering the other $8 -

cool plan - but true it makes selling the discs to golfers at any other price a bit more challenging

CHAIN BANGER
05-14-2010, 01:18 AM
Well boys I have a bag of discs. I will sell each and every one of them to anyone for one hundred dollars a piece. Then I will donate eighty four dollars to the Allstars per disc. How about that for fund raising. Since you find it so hard to give back and grow the sport with out some kind of gain where some dictatorship says where the money goes and when. Lets do that then for now on all CFR discs should be one hundred dollars. See how many people hear about your tournaments by discs circling the country.


Why complain about someone having a sponsor pick up the extra few bucks on the price of a disc when you have the same opportunity if you would just beat the bushes and look. I can not figure it out, for the life of me. I can't see somebody complaining about people taking care of the greater good.

Your opinions disgust me. If you can not have a monopoly on what ever is out there you try to run it in the ground. From trying to Hijack another forum when asked nicely several times not to, to getting upset about someone trying to sell discs not for profit. I think it is funny that some of you are willing to sell your private stock out there for profit and not caring about the people that are just beginning to play with whamos. Give them an old disc to play with. If you do I bet they will be back with their friends playing on a regular basis. How many of you have donated discs or bags to new players? As always and the reason I never joined is if the glory horn doesn't blow for you or it wasn't your idea you are against it. Can't be any progress without your consent.

jeremy
05-14-2010, 07:50 AM
Any money raised from CFRs (or any other disc for that matter) that I or the club sells goes to tourneys. We don't take any profit. I don't know what you're taking about there. Also, I've given away more of my personal stuff than anyone I know. I used to joke that there wan't a player in the area that didn't have a disc with my name on it. I've given away multiple bags and other goods too (ask the Dodson bros.). Nobody is slamming the Allstars. We just pointed out the rules. If anyone was really trying to cause a rift they would have ran to Innova and screamed foul. Instead it was pointed out locally and discussed.

I'm so sick of hearing about disc golf dictatorships, and power, and profit, and the greater good. We are all in this game for the same reason...growing the sport. I've ran more tourneys than anyone in this area and I can tell you that there is no profit to be made in this sport without OBVIOUSLY screwing over the players. I don't see anyone in our area doing that. I've done what I've done because I love the game and want to see it grow. Threads like this are highly offensive to me. This is NOT what I've worked for. There's way to much drama going on.

This thread is EXACTLY why I used to just delete a thread like this in move on. What good is it doing other than driving more of a wedge between the players in this city? There is barely a sentence that anyone has posted in all six pages of this thread that has anything to do with bettering the sport. Huge waste of energy.

Adam
05-14-2010, 09:54 AM
You're right Jeremy, there are more important things we could be focusing on.


"leave things better than you find them”


“whoever has the most fun, wins”

martin
05-14-2010, 11:06 AM
chain banger? might i add who is this going under the pseudonym

in regards to the CFR discs - i honestly think the sponsorship the allstars have found is a cool thing -
at the same time CFR discs - are not the same as the regular runs of discs - they are unique - they are harder to come by - they are excluded from regular runs so that they may be what they are - Club Fundraiser Discs
Selling these discs for the same price as the regular runs - i believe reduces the significance of these discs - the purpose of selling them for $20 a pop or so is to generate funds from the players who purchase them - since the allstars have a sponsor to carry that extra expense - it seems the allstars are lessening the total money that could be coming in - as players and sponsors could be totaling up more money for more payouts
sometimes "the greater good" isn't as clear cut as it seems
in the long run - i really dont care - the allstars are doing some great things - keep it up

I am confused by this whole profit thing?? I know players sell discs for profit - sure I have sold many discs on the course and given many away as well - but the club??

all disc sales that the club makes have always gone back to the community - via tournaments, leagues, or other events - nobody is making $$ off this.

chuck
05-14-2010, 05:49 PM
All of this drama is really making me rethink wanting to start a disc golf club in Lebanon. Sheesh!!!

Bubby Hill
05-14-2010, 08:08 PM
Crazy, isn't it Chuck.